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Charlie Becker's avatar

There’s so much I could say about this story. As someone who’s taught at a university for about 12 years now, it’s strange to see something I’d taken as normal described this way. But it maps onto something I’d felt and hadn’t been able to articulate.

I’ve always been lucky to teach electives and upper-level courses. But it was always told me that the outcomes belong in the syllabus. As you’ve suggested here, they’re so broad (and I’m also so meticulous about what I teach) that it’s easy for me to show how what I’m doing meets those standards.

That being said, I think what St. John’s does is interesting. I’ve always looked up to them, and my dad tried to get me to go to a school like that, but I was too interested in going to a big state school where I could party anonymously after 13 years of prep schools. I think the issue is that they've opted out so hard, they produce a very specific type of independent thinker who doesn't always map onto what most people think is prestigious.

The first institution that finds a way to opt out the way St. John’s has, but in a manner that maps to striver sensibilities and attracts the kind of people who currently aim for the Ivy League (and Y Combinator and their equivalents) will take off into the stratosphere.

Robin Cannon's avatar

I couldn't not reply to this.

My dad, Tom Cannon, died earlier this year. He created the first Times Good University Guide and UK university league table. That was back in 1992.

Back then, it was controversial even to try and answer the question. Reputation was self-validating. Oxford was Oxford. Cambridge was Cambridge. A new university was a new university. Everyone knew that.

Dad included graduate employment prospects. Always a champion of students, he believed you should look at what a university did for them. That was more important than reproducing an existing hierarchy of prestige.

Of course, once you turn things into a league table, you have to measure things consistently. Many important parts of education are the things that resist that measurement.

So that Wirecutter analogy hits home.

Dad would have been sympathetic to the idea of a Wirecutter for universities. Not another universal ranking. Something observational. Sit in the classroom, talk to the students, look at what's taught. Is the thing sold under the name the same as what people think they're buying?

Transparency helps a lot. But you're right to challenge us to get better at tasting the gelato.

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